Comments on: Vmware Springsource and Hyperic: Brave new world and a lot of questions http://www.mberkay.com/2009/08/11/vmware-springsource-and-hyperic-brave-new-world-and-a-lot-of-questions/ Fri, 26 Feb 2010 03:30:16 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: berkay http://www.mberkay.com/2009/08/11/vmware-springsource-and-hyperic-brave-new-world-and-a-lot-of-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-369 berkay Thu, 13 Aug 2009 06:25:38 +0000 http://www.mberkay.com/?p=155#comment-369 Agreed. <br>VMWare may be able to do more than bare metal jvm OS with Springsource, They can go further app the stack and create something like Google App Engine for the enterprise, without the limitations of GAE. Agreed.
VMWare may be able to do more than bare metal jvm OS with Springsource, They can go further app the stack and create something like Google App Engine for the enterprise, without the limitations of GAE.

]]> By: Bill http://www.mberkay.com/2009/08/11/vmware-springsource-and-hyperic-brave-new-world-and-a-lot-of-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-368 Bill Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:53:27 +0000 http://www.mberkay.com/?p=155#comment-368 Spring is running on the JVM, just like JBoss etc. VMWare do not have to buy a Java framework to do JVM stuff.<br><br>VMWare could do a "bare metal" jvm os, and you could run Java app on top of that. You dont need Spring to do that. Spring is running on the JVM, just like JBoss etc. VMWare do not have to buy a Java framework to do JVM stuff.

VMWare could do a “bare metal” jvm os, and you could run Java app on top of that. You dont need Spring to do that.

]]> By: williamlouth http://www.mberkay.com/2009/08/11/vmware-springsource-and-hyperic-brave-new-world-and-a-lot-of-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-367 williamlouth Wed, 12 Aug 2009 06:27:09 +0000 http://www.mberkay.com/?p=155#comment-367 Actually most of the other vendors such as Tivoli, HP and BMC do provide agents for the Java runtime though in most accounts they are disabled because of the large overhead they generally incur and the poor value delivered by what is collected. Tivoli has probably one of the worst track records in this regard followed by HP. Most customers buying into such products are also buying into the complete ITIL product management suite including help desks, cmdbs, slm, bsm,... which is completely out of the range & possibilities of Hyperic and its team.<br><br>You are probably right that Hyperic will target specifically Java now considering that SpringSource had indicated that they were going to do a complete rewrite which follows on from two other complete rewrites by JBoss and Hyperic itself. If a complete rewrite is underway then management would probably look to minimize risk and reduce the scope. That said I would not be surprised if Hyperic is not put to rest as VMware has already invested in tooling around its management console(s).<br><br>I still think we are a very long way away from are sort of automated dynamic provisioning until we can accurate collect and model the underlying software and system execution models. Actually most of the other vendors such as Tivoli, HP and BMC do provide agents for the Java runtime though in most accounts they are disabled because of the large overhead they generally incur and the poor value delivered by what is collected. Tivoli has probably one of the worst track records in this regard followed by HP. Most customers buying into such products are also buying into the complete ITIL product management suite including help desks, cmdbs, slm, bsm,… which is completely out of the range & possibilities of Hyperic and its team.

You are probably right that Hyperic will target specifically Java now considering that SpringSource had indicated that they were going to do a complete rewrite which follows on from two other complete rewrites by JBoss and Hyperic itself. If a complete rewrite is underway then management would probably look to minimize risk and reduce the scope. That said I would not be surprised if Hyperic is not put to rest as VMware has already invested in tooling around its management console(s).

I still think we are a very long way away from are sort of automated dynamic provisioning until we can accurate collect and model the underlying software and system execution models.

]]> By: berkay http://www.mberkay.com/2009/08/11/vmware-springsource-and-hyperic-brave-new-world-and-a-lot-of-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-366 berkay Wed, 12 Aug 2009 06:04:25 +0000 http://www.mberkay.com/?p=155#comment-366 William, <br><br>Thanks for the comment.Hyperic is typically compared to more generic monitoring tools like the ones I've mentioned above which typically don't have an agent on the box and rely on SNMP or WMI. <br>I understand your argument that deeper and more efficient insight into applications is needed to resolve scalability and performance problems (like provided by Jinspire)<br><br>By assigning CPU and memory, I was referring to elasticity rather than scalability/performance problem originating from the application. In a VMWare box with 32 CPUs and 128GB memory hosting multiple JVMs, VMWare can potentially change allocation of CPUs and memory to applications based on the load for each app, making better use of the available resources. William,

Thanks for the comment.Hyperic is typically compared to more generic monitoring tools like the ones I've mentioned above which typically don't have an agent on the box and rely on SNMP or WMI.
I understand your argument that deeper and more efficient insight into applications is needed to resolve scalability and performance problems (like provided by Jinspire)

By assigning CPU and memory, I was referring to elasticity rather than scalability/performance problem originating from the application. In a VMWare box with 32 CPUs and 128GB memory hosting multiple JVMs, VMWare can potentially change allocation of CPUs and memory to applications based on the load for each app, making better use of the available resources.

]]> By: williamlouth http://www.mberkay.com/2009/08/11/vmware-springsource-and-hyperic-brave-new-world-and-a-lot-of-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-365 williamlouth Wed, 12 Aug 2009 04:45:53 +0000 http://www.mberkay.com/?p=155#comment-365 "Hyperic is different than other solutions in the market it’s competing."<br><br>What exactly are you referring too? Hyperic is complete void of application interactions and largely relies on process level metrics (no context, no interaction, no activity chain, no correlation) published as MBeans and instrumented by developers of applications and technologies within the stack. <br><br>Assigning more cpu does not at all solve a scalability or performance problem in the cloud unless your are aware of the nature & profile of the activities (io bound, cpu bound, mixed) queued and how they interact (bottlenecks) with each other in competing for resources. “Hyperic is different than other solutions in the market it’s competing.”

What exactly are you referring too? Hyperic is complete void of application interactions and largely relies on process level metrics (no context, no interaction, no activity chain, no correlation) published as MBeans and instrumented by developers of applications and technologies within the stack.

Assigning more cpu does not at all solve a scalability or performance problem in the cloud unless your are aware of the nature & profile of the activities (io bound, cpu bound, mixed) queued and how they interact (bottlenecks) with each other in competing for resources.

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